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Torchwood

In reference to the new audio episodes. I think I'm over it. Either that, or it's just that as much as I love Captain Jack (and JB), it's just not Torchwood without Owen, Tosh, and Ianto. Like Miracle Day wasn't really Torchwood, and even COE seemed to be the characters names played by the same actors, but actually different characters, if that makes sense. Everyone was so OOC in COE, it did not seem like Torchwood to me at all. Hellooo fan fiction. I am so there. Oddly enough, I am perfectly fine reading fics where there is no Gwen. She never seems to add anything but annoyance, in my mind. Like a strand of celery stuck in your teeth (read that somewhere), you desperately want it to go away, but it just stays and stays and stays and makes you crazy in the interim. But that's just me.

Comments

excentric397
Jul. 22nd, 2015 12:12 am (UTC)
Yep, seen the Star Trek ones, too. Liking them. The original Star Trek eps are soooo corny, but there was a lot of about tolerance, and the bad influence of religion, and how things change and get distorted and misinterpreted over time. A lot of philosophy, if you could get past the corn.

I think fic writers are like any writers, they can write whatever their imagination comes up with. Only if they are locked into following canon exactly is there a limit to what they can do, I think. There are some amazing AU's out there, too. Personally, I think we got screwed by canon, so if I was an author, I would say, screw canon, too. Lots of fics where everyone is still alive and well. God, I love this fandom.

You can be in more than one fandom, right? I'm kind of on/off with Sherlock, because there are some amazing fics there, too, but I just can't see the two of them as a couple. I've tried, but no. Greg and Mycroft, however, I kind of like together. They complement one another, I think.

Isn't it all great? Why yes. Yes it is.
dieastra
Jul. 22nd, 2015 12:31 am (UTC)
Yeah, this is what made me put it off for so long - of course I had gotten a glimpse here and there on TV, but I never liked much for example when they were all mind controlled and had to act weirdly - which they do a lot.

But watching it all in full and in order now it didn't take me long to really fall in love with them, and there are also many really great emotional and touchy scenes. Kirk/Shatnere isn't always as hammy as people like to make him be. And great actors that actually have chemistry with each other. The reason why I was starting now, that I had seen one of the new movies and it felt so cold to me. Technically perfect, but I did not feel any emotions. Which the old series has plenty. And in some ways, they were indeed very insightful into the future.

I don't mind AUs where everyone is alive, I also don't mind AUs where they are suddenly tennis players liky Choccy girl once did, as long as it is well done and their real personalities still shine through, and you think, yep, that is my Jack and my Ianto. I don't like AUs when they are so much distant from their original selfes that they have only the name in common but nothing else.

For that reason, I also don't like stories where one of them becomes a toddler again. Goes right into the Jack and Ianto bring the kids to school area ;) Jack being a father to little cute Ianto? Urghs.

Yes, I am quite on and off in the Sherlock fandom as well! Every two years when we have new episodes to be exactly. Then I read some ffs as well - there were some great ones that tried to solve The Fall - but usually I don't follow what the actors do and every interview and little hint. As you might know, I am mainly a John Barrowman fan, and I have my hands quite full with him, as busy as he always is. Hard to keep up. And I am quite inserted into Arrow because of that as well.
excentric397
Jul. 22nd, 2015 12:45 am (UTC)
My favorite parts were always when the three of them were together around the captain's chair, snarking each other. They just seemed like real friends. I haven't seen the new movies, they don't feel like Star Trek at all, judging from the ads I've seen. And that guy who plays Chekov? Seriously?

I read Choccy girl's tennis player one. Different, but I liked it. Have you read 'The Man in Gray', by evalentine? One of my all-time favorites, even though it is very, very different and extremely AU. I also love 'Guard Them, and Him Within', by etharai. Then there's 'What Never Should Be' by blucougar. I think this is at the top of my list. Yes, I have a list of favorite favorites, just a few. A really good AU Sherlock is 'Performance in a Leading Role', by Mad_Lori.

I kind of like some of the 'someone gets turned into a toddler'. Just cute. I'm not a fan of mpreg or 'happy families' or 'our superheroes can't save the world, they're too busy changing diapers' ones.

I do like Barrowman, although he can be quite bizarre in his behaviour at times, and clearly love attention, but he seems like a genuinely nice person. I wan't sure about Gareth before he got married, but I only read good things about him now. I don't follow them much, either, but you can't help read stuff that winds up in front of you. Uh huh. That's my excuse.
dieastra
Jul. 22nd, 2015 01:08 am (UTC)
Yes, the trio is just perfect. I also do like the rare scenes between Kirk and McCoy, where we can see that being the leader is sometimes difficult, when everyone expects answers from you which you cannot give.

I only watched the second movie as my friend, who is a huge Benedict Cumberbatch fan, was so excited about it. But I used the fast forward button on all the action sequences.

From your list, only "What never should be" is something I clearly remember, one of those stories that you start late in the evening and then just can't put down. Very well done and very touching. I shall seek out the others you recommended if you think they are also that good.

I had my fair share of toddler fics in the Stargate fandom with Jack/Daniel, I guess that's why it all seems like a repeat to me now.

John may be over the top sometimes, even the biggest fan has their "Oh, John!" moment once in a while ;) and I certainly don't approve of everything either - he's human, after all, and makes mistakes. But he is very appreciative of his fans and really does everything for them. Which else star do you know who does a road trip, sending pictures on Twitter, telling people to find out where they are to get a pic and autograph? Every other celibrity tries to stay incognito.
He even took off his hoodie so I could touch his biceps for a picture: http://dieastra.livejournal.com/137444.html

Last year, I was one of the lucky ones being allowed into the recording studio to watch him record his newest CD (done by crowdfunding). An experience I'll never forget, as you rarely get to see him so up close and intimate and also serious while working, and crying even a few times with the emotional songs. A much different John than the one we see on TV or at cons. I hope to repeat that with the next CD.

And whatever he does, be it moderating quiz shows or that one about the animal hospital on TV, or being live on stage in concert or musical, or doing conventions - he always does it to 100% and with great enthusiasm. We all should enjoy life like that - enjoy the moment, not worry about tomorrow. And with that, I should go to bed, it's 3 AM and I have to work tomorrow. Nos da!
excentric397
Jul. 22nd, 2015 01:20 am (UTC)
Oops, it's only a bit after 9pm here. I know, John is so appreciative of his fans, unlike a lot of actors/performers who think fans are a burden. And the bizarre behaviour adds to the fun, right, although sometimes.... LOL He really is gorgeous, too. Really. I agree about the 100% thing.

I have never read any Stargate fanfic. Read some Due South. I loved that show, but can't find a lot of good fics.

I quite enjoyed this. Thank you. Have a good night.

dieastra
Jul. 23rd, 2015 01:24 pm (UTC)
But you have watched Stargate? It was the first fandom where I explored the internet, went to conventions, met all my friends. By reading fanfictions I learnt all my English. At first almost looking up every word, but now I can babble with the best of them. I may occassionally sound like snarky Jack O'Neill though, he had some great one-liners.

There's one story which I consider one of the best I have ever read - the team returned home from a mission, but Jack went missing. They can't find him. On the planet, through this accident he has lost his memories and abilities, and has to slowly relearn everything. The medical part was done very well with the poor doctors trying their best (I asked the author and she confirmed that she is a doctor indeed) - I mean, imagine we had a Roswell alien to treat with no idea how their organs function.

The whole society she invented there was indeed very alien and different, they communicated with hand signs rather than words, and Jack would later become a part of their society and fit in well. Until the past came back to him.

In the meantime, on Earth, it is done like the movie "It's a wonderful life", retelling some episodes where Jack had made a difference, but since he was not here, the outcome is very different and AU. In the end it all comes together in a round circle, and it all was written very very well.

Some of these fanfiction authors later actually wrote the first official Stargate novels, and they are so much better than those of the so-called professional authors. As only the fans know their characteres really well and can put in all the hints. I always get the feelings that the professional authors just write any science fiction story, and just put the names in.
excentric397
Jul. 23rd, 2015 02:55 pm (UTC)
I watched every episode of Stargate. It was scifi Friday here. Stargate, Farscape, and another that completely escapes me. My friend John, would call me to tape them for him if he couldn't be home and sorry, guys, couldn't program his own vcr. Those were the days. LOL

My favorite was the time loop one. I could watch that one in a time loop and not get tired of it. LOL I also like the documentary one, I think it was the 100th episode maybe? I don't remember a lot of bad episodes. I don't think I've ever read any SG1 fan fiction, either, although I've read some Stargate Atlantis fiction. Before Torchwood, the only fan fiction I'd ever read was a bit about Firefly, and only because my daughter was in it. She's a Browncoat and has met some of the actors and even spent the day with Adam Baldwin and his brother a few years ago.

Never done the fan thing, been to cons, met people, written fan letters. It must be amazing to go to a con and actually see the actors in person as themselves. Don't know about meeting them. I'd probably be one of those idiots who made a complete fool of themselves.

Tv used to be something you watched. You liked a show, it got cancelled, over and done. I like this way better.
dieastra
Jan. 10th, 2016 10:25 pm (UTC)
My favorite was the time loop one.

Mine as well! Made me into a fan actually.
Not sure if I threw this at you already or not but I recently added speech bubbles to my "Window of opportunity" pictures - please check them out here: http://dieastra.livejournal.com/1703.html
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excentric397
Jul. 24th, 2015 11:56 pm (UTC)
I just remembered this one. He was sad when they found him and he had to go back home, if I remember correctly. It was a really good episode. There were very few that weren't up to the mark, I think.
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excentric397
Jul. 22nd, 2015 10:40 am (UTC)
Oh, lord, I'm up. Not awake, but up. Anyway, rereading this, I can see how tired I was, and I completely went past saying what I wanted about this bit:

"I don't like AUs when they are so much distant from their original selfes that they have only the name in common but nothing else."

COE. You're talking about COE, right? I didn't watch Miracle Day, but I think it's the same thing.
dieastra
Jul. 22nd, 2015 11:46 am (UTC)
Oh boy, I wrote too much... sorry. This is part 1/2:

Okay, unpopular opinion ahead – you have been warned ;)

CoE is what actually made me become a Torchwood fan. It had been years that I had watched Doctor Who (German TV stopped airing it after the second season due to bad ratings and I could not get into David Tennant at the time anyway) and I had no memory at all of Jack (if only someone had told me that JB also sings, I would have been a fan years earlier).

While I was aware that Jack and Ianto were a Thing, I was not sure I wanted to watch a series with the alien of the week so I skipped it when it came to German TV in February 2009 (we are always a few years behind of everyone). I also had read somewhere that the second season is so much better anyway. So I decided to turn in when that airs. Unfortunately, I had forgotten that British series only have 13 episodes, instead of 23. So the first episode I ever watched was “From out of the Rain”, which is nearly the end of season 2. Therefore Owen’s and Tosh’s deaths did not have much impact on me as well, having barely known them. They continued to air CoE, but once a week as well. And it had been a long time since I had been that hooked in front of the TV. Really sitting on the edge of my seat with my mouth open, not daring to breathe, regretting not having taped it for rewatching. It came totally unexpected and out of the blue, you know how it is to discover a new fandom.

It may be not good Torchwood, but it is good TV. It would have been great on its own, without the TW team.

And, without knowing much about the characters at the time, it did work well for me. As it was aimed at the casual viewer, not at the fan. I assume lots of people who had never seen TW before did watch it, as it was such an event on BBC1. We have one such main German TV channel as well, if I imagine they aired something like that where people actually talk about it… alas they are too chicken. Same old, same old.

Anyway, I have watched it a few times since, after knowing seasons 1 and 2 as well, and I totally can see and understand all the complaints about plot holes and OOCness. And especially, like someone once put it, it’s like having a Batman film without the Batcave, the Batcar and Robin. Oh how do I miss that Hub and that SUV.

It’s just, that yours is not the experience I had, coming in from the wrong end. When we came to episode 4, I remembered that I had my friends heard talking about Ianto dying (at a time when I had no intention to watch this and so didn’t care for spoilers) and I actually thought, oh, so he will probably die now. I did expect it, and therefore I never got to feel what you fans felt. But now I can understand it and relate to it. But please understand also that I was very shocked when I went to the internet for the first time, trying to find a forum to talk about this awesome new series, and all I find are death threats to RTD. So in a way I am maybe better off, having missed all the drama at the time. Drama from both sides I might add. RTDs replies surely didn’t help.

To be continued in part 2/2
dieastra
Jul. 22nd, 2015 11:46 am (UTC)
And this is part 2/2, see part 1/2 for the beginning:


I did watch MD of course, I can’t sit here and not watch as long as there is something new, and as long as it has Jack. And I had really looked forward to that. Everyone involved said it was the best thing they ever did, in various interviews, and we got all those excited tweets from costume department etc. In a way, this was the first I watched “live”, as I had been too late for all the other ones and nobody to talk to. And I did actually enjoy the first two episodes, thinking we are back to over the top silliness now which is what the fans had wanted, right? And then from week to week you could see less responses in the internet, and everyone just watching in horror at this train wreck happening. I was really, really disappointed. That last episode especially with the giant v…a as someone titled it, feels so B-movie to me. I was horrified. I was actually saying to a friend at the time, I hope JB gets out, before this seriously hurts his career. Of course he never would, he is too loyal and he misses Jack as we all do. He actually said at a convention it was like having a good friend die, when he had to let him go without knowing whether he would come back one day. And people repeatedly asking whether he would be in the 50th Who anniversary didn’t actually help at all, it just opened the wound again and again.

This is why I am so happy about this hopefully fresh new start. I treat MD indeed as an AU, something that has not really happened and has no impct. In my action figure stories, the whole team is still alive, and I am confident they will be in the audios as well.

So this is my experience. I guess I experienced with MD what you experienced with CoE. You probably also looked quite forward to it, having been promised all kind of awesome things, and the more it hurt afterwards. Please don’t unfriend me for being honest?
excentric397
Jul. 22nd, 2015 01:37 pm (UTC)
Good grief, why would I unfriend anybody for honesty? Honesty is almost always a good thing, in my mind. Say what you mean, mean what you say. Think how much easier life would be if people actually did that.

I've seen pictures of the 'giant v...' and it made me realize that there is bad television, and then there is, "Oh my god, what utter moron ever thought this was a good idea?" television, of which Mayo Day is the primary example.

Everything I read about it after it aired just made me more and more glad I gave it a pass. Gwen spouting that she is better than the rest of them because she lived. This is a character I'm supposed to like? Uh, no. He wanted it to be the Gwen show from the start, but the BBC wouldn't bite, is what I've heard. So unfair to JB, who was so happy to have his own show. I truly despise RTD, and I don't see that ever changing.

I am loving this exchange. So glad you commented.
dieastra
Jul. 23rd, 2015 01:03 pm (UTC)
Good grief, why would I unfriend anybody for honesty?

I've seen the weirdest things in the internet... and since we just start to get to know each other, this certainly is a hot topic.

Honesty is almost always a good thing, in my mind. Say what you mean, mean what you say. Think how much easier life would be if people actually did that.

My words! I always tell people to please tell me directly and in no uncertain words what they want from me. I can't work with hints or vague mentions which lead to frustrations as there will be misunderstandings.

Aside from Gwen, the biggest quibble I have with the show is the lack of Jack. To me, he felt like a guest star in his own show. All the action and dialogue went to the American guy. I think they tried to set up a Torchwood: LA with him as the new leader.

In the beginning I liked the new Jack, John had certainly learnt a few new tricks to his acting, and was not so much over the top with emotions anymore, the grief and loneliness was well done and very convincing and real. But the longer it went on, the more I longed for Jack the leader, giving orders, holding the team together. Sadly he only returned in the last couple of seconds.

Even before Jack had become immortal he was not a coward, so him staying back while the others did all the action, as he was the only one that could die, was ridiculous.

It had some nice scenes and character moments. And interestingly, a lot of American people said it was a good show, as it certainly was different than what they ever had seen before. But again, it just was not Torchwood. But if it led a few more new fans to the old show, the better.

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excentric397
Jul. 22nd, 2015 01:29 pm (UTC)
Only read part one so far. :) I think COE was brilliant television, and it was truly edge of your seat. It just wasn't Torchwood. I think he couldn't get it made without tying it to something already successful, so he shoe-horned Torchwood into something completely different. I remember thinking as I watched it, that someone really, really has to hate their government to write something so negative about it. But it wasn't Torchwood. And then they killed Ianto.

I did think the death threats were over the top, especially the ones to the guy whose name escapes me but isn't RTD. On the other hand, RTD really was a complete and total ass to the fans, and also, I've read, to Gareth, disrespecting him badly in a public forum. He lost me as a viewer of anything he's associated with at that point.