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Torchwood

In reference to the new audio episodes. I think I'm over it. Either that, or it's just that as much as I love Captain Jack (and JB), it's just not Torchwood without Owen, Tosh, and Ianto. Like Miracle Day wasn't really Torchwood, and even COE seemed to be the characters names played by the same actors, but actually different characters, if that makes sense. Everyone was so OOC in COE, it did not seem like Torchwood to me at all. Hellooo fan fiction. I am so there. Oddly enough, I am perfectly fine reading fics where there is no Gwen. She never seems to add anything but annoyance, in my mind. Like a strand of celery stuck in your teeth (read that somewhere), you desperately want it to go away, but it just stays and stays and stays and makes you crazy in the interim. But that's just me.

Comments

dieastra
Jul. 22nd, 2015 11:46 am (UTC)
And this is part 2/2, see part 1/2 for the beginning:


I did watch MD of course, I can’t sit here and not watch as long as there is something new, and as long as it has Jack. And I had really looked forward to that. Everyone involved said it was the best thing they ever did, in various interviews, and we got all those excited tweets from costume department etc. In a way, this was the first I watched “live”, as I had been too late for all the other ones and nobody to talk to. And I did actually enjoy the first two episodes, thinking we are back to over the top silliness now which is what the fans had wanted, right? And then from week to week you could see less responses in the internet, and everyone just watching in horror at this train wreck happening. I was really, really disappointed. That last episode especially with the giant v…a as someone titled it, feels so B-movie to me. I was horrified. I was actually saying to a friend at the time, I hope JB gets out, before this seriously hurts his career. Of course he never would, he is too loyal and he misses Jack as we all do. He actually said at a convention it was like having a good friend die, when he had to let him go without knowing whether he would come back one day. And people repeatedly asking whether he would be in the 50th Who anniversary didn’t actually help at all, it just opened the wound again and again.

This is why I am so happy about this hopefully fresh new start. I treat MD indeed as an AU, something that has not really happened and has no impct. In my action figure stories, the whole team is still alive, and I am confident they will be in the audios as well.

So this is my experience. I guess I experienced with MD what you experienced with CoE. You probably also looked quite forward to it, having been promised all kind of awesome things, and the more it hurt afterwards. Please don’t unfriend me for being honest?
excentric397
Jul. 22nd, 2015 01:37 pm (UTC)
Good grief, why would I unfriend anybody for honesty? Honesty is almost always a good thing, in my mind. Say what you mean, mean what you say. Think how much easier life would be if people actually did that.

I've seen pictures of the 'giant v...' and it made me realize that there is bad television, and then there is, "Oh my god, what utter moron ever thought this was a good idea?" television, of which Mayo Day is the primary example.

Everything I read about it after it aired just made me more and more glad I gave it a pass. Gwen spouting that she is better than the rest of them because she lived. This is a character I'm supposed to like? Uh, no. He wanted it to be the Gwen show from the start, but the BBC wouldn't bite, is what I've heard. So unfair to JB, who was so happy to have his own show. I truly despise RTD, and I don't see that ever changing.

I am loving this exchange. So glad you commented.
dieastra
Jul. 23rd, 2015 01:03 pm (UTC)
Good grief, why would I unfriend anybody for honesty?

I've seen the weirdest things in the internet... and since we just start to get to know each other, this certainly is a hot topic.

Honesty is almost always a good thing, in my mind. Say what you mean, mean what you say. Think how much easier life would be if people actually did that.

My words! I always tell people to please tell me directly and in no uncertain words what they want from me. I can't work with hints or vague mentions which lead to frustrations as there will be misunderstandings.

Aside from Gwen, the biggest quibble I have with the show is the lack of Jack. To me, he felt like a guest star in his own show. All the action and dialogue went to the American guy. I think they tried to set up a Torchwood: LA with him as the new leader.

In the beginning I liked the new Jack, John had certainly learnt a few new tricks to his acting, and was not so much over the top with emotions anymore, the grief and loneliness was well done and very convincing and real. But the longer it went on, the more I longed for Jack the leader, giving orders, holding the team together. Sadly he only returned in the last couple of seconds.

Even before Jack had become immortal he was not a coward, so him staying back while the others did all the action, as he was the only one that could die, was ridiculous.

It had some nice scenes and character moments. And interestingly, a lot of American people said it was a good show, as it certainly was different than what they ever had seen before. But again, it just was not Torchwood. But if it led a few more new fans to the old show, the better.

excentric397
Jul. 23rd, 2015 02:44 pm (UTC)
I have a friend who says, 'Interesting.' when she doesn't like something you've said. Took me awhile when I first met her to figure out what she meant. If you don't tell me, how will I know, how can I attempt to do things differently, or apologize, or explain, or whatever. It drives me crazy when people just talk around what they want to say. I don't read minds, people. Seriously, just tell me what you mean. I, on the other hand, am kind of like Sheldon. Open mouth, words come out. No filters, no tact, or so I'm told. But at least you know where you stand with me. Think of all the shows and stories where if this person had just SAID, the whole thing would have gone completely differently. It like when two people do something they hate, because each one mistakenly thinks the other one likes it, and neither speaks up to say they don't. "Why, yes, I am cannot stand horror movies, but I will go because I know you love them". "OMG, I hate horror movies, but I'll pretend to like them because you do." Speak to one another, people, please.

If you could see the dreck that passes for entertainment in the States, you'd think anything where people have an accent is good tv, just because it's different from the usual crap. I've seen a lot of 'remakes' of Brit shows, and you'd think they were done by smutty little boys, or fourteen year old girls. No offense, children, but my cat could do better. You have to be thin and pretty or studly, and whether you can act or your character is believable is kind of irrelevant.

I've seen people as main characters on Brit shows on PBS that you would never see as more than a minor background character on American tv. Not pretty enough. That's what I like about British tv, the actors look like real people. You can believe that they are the character. I love that they fully develop even minor characters a lot of the time. They're not there just as filler, like over here. And not everything is graphic and inj-your-face.

I think what I mean is that character and plot fall by the wayside in favor of glitz, sex, pretty, and shock value. Everything is superficial.

I think since RTD wanted to have a 'Gwen' show, but the BBC wouldn't go for it (I've read), he saw Miracle Day as his second chance, and relegated Jack to a background character. Whatever was going on in his mind, he really killed his own show when he decided to kill off most of the cast in favor of her.

Sorry, didn't mean to go off on a rant. It's nice to know I'm not the only one who likes directness, too. It doesn't seem to be a common trait, does it? We could start a trend. :}
dieastra
Jul. 23rd, 2015 03:05 pm (UTC)
Open mouth, words come out. No filters, no tact, or so I'm told.

Haha, me too ;) We two make quite a pair ;) I guess this is what draws me towards JB so much. He is also very unfiltered and always says what he thinks. What you see is what you get. That's what some people love and other people hate about him.

I've never watched BBT, because I could not stand laughing over poor Sheldon. People have laughed too often about me, when I said something that was totally logic in my mind, but apparently the total wrong thing to do or say.

I've seen people as main characters on Brit shows on PBS that you would never see as more than a minor background character on American tv. Not pretty enough.

Yes, oh yes! They feel like real people indeed. Remember that secretary Jack once flirted with, just a minor scene, but so well done. In "Arrow", we also get the usual thin good looking woman in one case, and the other one, who is a bit more rounded, is called "fat" on IMDB. If that is fat, then people have no idea what fat really is. They also keep asking whether the character is pregnant. Hello?

I think you might enjoy "Call the midwife" - lots of very ordinary looking women (it's set in the Fifthies in London's East End, a very poor part of the city). Actresses without any make-up. But it is so full of life and feels so real. It's also made after real stories a midwife wrote down.
excentric397
Jul. 23rd, 2015 03:31 pm (UTC)
Again, I'm way ahead of you. Watched the Midwife, up until after the first season without the main character. It just didn't seem the same. I love the doctor (Eight's brother in real life) and his wife. You don't usually see a story where a nun renounces her vows to live a secular life handled so well, without sensationalizing or too much angst. Just the way life goes, sometimes. It's a really nice story line.

I liked TBBT because I could relate to Sheldon. He was so much like me, except they keep making him more and more annoying and arrogant, and took away the 'yes, here's a flawed character doing his best' bit. I liked when he would ask Leonard, "Too much" and things like that, and Leonard was there to give him the nudges into how to act around people. That was sweet, and something I could have used in my life.

I remember people being upset with something I'd said, and having no clue why they were upset, or even what was wrong with what I said in the first place. To see someone like me, it was very reassuring, I guess. It's not just that there is something horribly wrong with me and I'm too stupid to know what it is. It's NOT just me. Having no social skills makes life very hard sometimes, which it seems you know all too well.

I, too, love that about JB. He is not afraid or ashamed to be who he is. This is me, get it or get over it. I would love to have had that confidence when I was younger. It took me most of a long life to come to terms with just that. This is me. If you don't like it, you don't have to have me in your life. I'll get over it. I'll survive. I've unofficially tested up there on the Asperger's scale, which again, knowing there's a reason you are the way you are is always comforting, even if it changes nothing. It's like having my illness. Knowing I'm not crazy, or lazy, and there really is a reason I am exhausted and in pain all the time just helps. Doesn't make me better, but it helps to know there's something real going on.

You know, sometimes it just clicks. It's not often you get to have such a fun and interesting exchange with someone 'out there'. That's what I love about the internet. You get to skip all that face-to-face judging and adjusting and getting to know, and just get to the nitty gritty. Not meaning to be all sappy or anything, but you are making my days right now. It's a good thing. Thank you.
dieastra
Jul. 23rd, 2015 03:59 pm (UTC)
Yay! I have yet to watch the latest season, need to get my hands on it yet. I still like a lot of the other characteres enough to watch on, but the series has definitely shifted its tone. Reason is that they ran out of original stories to tell and are now making up their own. So in a way it fits that Jenny left. And they put more emphasis on the personal life of the characteres now.

That's why I always will be very fond of Stargate, as it was the first time I realized I am not alone in this world, there are crazy people like me in this world (before I always was the odd one out not fitting in) and there are people that like me the way I am and I don't have to change myself at all.

The first time I heard of Aspergers was with Jerry from Boston Legal, with whom I immediately connected when he first appeared on screen. Funny how you realize on an unconscious level that there is someone like you?

You should have seen me before, being afraid of unusual or stressful situations, now I travel to the UK on my own if necessary and don't think twice of it. But after that much excitement and spending times with friends, I also need some time for myself, to come down.

I try to make a point to look behind the facade indeed, also with people meeting in real life. It is so easy to judge. And even in fangroups like Stargate or Torchwood, there are smaller groups and sometimes one person everyone laughs about. We shouldn't do that, we should stick together, so I always try to see the person and get to know them better before judging.

I remember the first night I sought out who that John Barrowman guy was. I spent till 4 AM at youtube, you know how it is - one video leads to 20 more. And I was amazed when he would talk with using his arms a lot in an interview, and laughing out loud. I never had seen someone doing that at TV before. I love the whole Barrowman family, they seem to be a funny and crazy bunch of people who surely enjoy life. It reminds me of my own family - we are always the loud ones and often get head turnings when we are in a store or restaurant. But we also once livened up a party of many old people with telling jokes or singing songs with them, and the next morning they said they had the best time of their life that evening. So, as always, two sides of a coin. You just have to learn to ignore the people that scrunch their noses.

I also bought a lot of old magazines with interviews, and in quite a few the article started with "I didn't expect to like him but I do". As the interviewers also go in with their opinion of what they see in TV, but of course in real life he is different. Once he turns his charme on you, you are lost ;)

Apparently we should have done that years ago! But better late than never, right?
excentric397
Jul. 25th, 2015 12:10 am (UTC)
I know, his family seems to really have a good time together, although I think his dad is a little creepy. Don't know why, unless maybe he reminds me of someone who is hidden in my subconscious? You never see anything about his brother, but he and his sister are quite the pair. They always make me smile and giggle. I think they must have had a really good childhood. Do I look a bit green here?

I remember Boston Legal, but I think I was still in the 'too stupid' phase and didn't really take in that "Oh, here's someone like me".

I admire you for being so bold and traveling on your own, and just getting out there. I used to cross the street if someone was coming towards me, just so I wouldn't have to interact by saying 'hi' or anything. Much better now. I can actually converse with total strangers. In person. Yay, me. LOL

It's really great how we change over time, and kind of great too how much we are influenced by people like John and Gareth. Seeing an out gay man, who is not ashamed, not afraid, who speaks his mind, what a great role model. I'm not gay, but I can see how beneficial it is. Even to not-gays. Just the confidence to be yourself, regardless of some people's prejudices, it helps all of us to see that demonstrated in real life.

It must be very different being an actor now, with cons and social media, and we are much more face-to-face with actors as people than ever was common before the internet and cons. It must be very rewarding for the actors to see and speak to the people who think they're fantastic. Or scary as hell. I'm not sure. LOL

dieastra
Aug. 8th, 2015 06:34 am (UTC)
The brother has chosen not to be in the spotlight but one in our FB group actually worked with him for years before realizing who he was ;) And she confirms he is a nice guy as well. He also once invited her and her son into his house when John was over.

Have you read the biographies "Anything goes" and "I am what I am"? Lots of funny family stories in there. They used to gather at Christmas and then everyone had to perform something, costumes and all. They are all performers. And somehow, all that talent must have culminated in John.

Do you know Greg Barrowman? A distant cousin. In 2010, at the age of 17, he had to step in for John in the daily pantomime show in Glasgow, when he got seriously ill with swine flu. To perform the lead role in a musical for a whole week twice a day at that age is something to achieve! I actually got to see him live two years ago the same day when John had fallen off that horse on stage and had to be brought to hospital. It was a bit scary. But he did well under the circumstances and last year he had his own show in Edinburgh. I'm sure we will hear from him yet.

I think the parents gave all their kids the best thing: Confidence and allowing them whatever they wanted to be. Telling them, do whatever they want to do, but be good at it. Also, at the age of 16, John was made to shovel coal into furnace a whole summer long, to learn the value of hard work. It was a great lesson, to learn that you should not look down at anyone, that each job is equally important, and he lives that.

He likes us to think that his childhood was without trouble, but recently at SDCC there was this anti-bullying panel and he told the story about how he was shoved into his locker by a bully. There is a short clip of it here: http://www.cbs8.com/story/29530313/at-comic-con-bullying-is-no-laughing-matter

The whole panel is officially available as well but I haven't watched it yet. Another time at Twitter he let slip "You have no idea what I went through so shut up"

Funnily, I never had trouble talking with strangers. As I knew I never would see them again ;) The daily people at school were the problem. And I always was afraid of getting lost. Even going just by tram through my own city made me sweat and anxious. And when our class would go to Berlin for a day, it frightened me. I always worried of staying behind and not knowing how to get home. In general, I lived so much inside my own head, I rarely looked at the world outside.

I think I can really thank fandom for changing me, giving me the confidence being liked the way I am. If you want to see your stars, you have to travel. It's easy as that. If you really want something, it is amazing what you can achieve!

There are actors like John (or Bill) who take to social media and like to interact with their fans, but there are still also others who don't want that (David Tennant) and it's fine. But everyone says, and I get that, that being in theatre is so much better, as you get the immediate audience reaction, while when filming on camera, you are on your own. And this is why I always say that JB belongs onto a stage. I have seen him in pantomime, I have seen him in concert tour, he is awesome with an audience he can play off of.

You are not anywhere near Palm Springs, are you? He will perform at a special evening there in March.

Sorry for this long comment, but as you can see, it is a topic I can talk about forever ;)
excentric397
Aug. 8th, 2015 10:13 pm (UTC)
I did read the books, it's been a few years now. I remember about the guy stepping in, but not the details, and I remember JB saying the reason he has an American accent is because he was bullied so badly for his Scottish accent, he learned to speak 'American' in self-defense. Kids can be so cruel to anyone who is different.

I live in Massachusetts. I am really not terribly mobile, so will probably never get to go to a con or anything, but I do love reading about them, and seeing the pictures of people who actually do get there. I usually have a lot of trouble understanding anyone on videos. I wish they published transcripts, to go along with the vids.

I have a bazillion pictures of John and Gareth and Torchwood in general, saved on my computer. I sometimes make that folder my wallpaper one, so I can just sit back and enjoy the view. Especially Gareth. I do like Gareth. :)

I don't know anybody in real life who even likes sci-fi (although the guy who used to come change the central air filter every six months was a Doctor Who fan, and we had some fun discussions while he worked), let alone Torchwood or Doctor Who, and when I say I'm a fangirl, they look at me like I am even crazier than they already thought I was. Maybe they think I'm too old to be a fangirl. Tough! It's fun to talk about this stuff, people. It makes me happy. Happy is good. Live with it! LOL